May 29, 2025 • 35 mins
Leslie had a last minute cancellation this week, so she decided to answer some of your burning questions. To do so, she's enlisted her producer, Liam, to talk through them.
Hosted by Leslie Dobson. Produced by Liam Billingham. Executive producers are Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media. The views expressed in this podcast episode are solely those of the guest speaker and do not reflect the views of the host or the production company.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
How do I say your name? Is it Billyingham?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
The English way, the correct pronunciation, like when I got
on a British Airways flights is Billingham, but like billing Ham,
billing Ham is how Americans say. That's how I say
billing Ham. I don't say Billingham. I'm not English. I
mean I am, but I'm much more Billingham. Donify, much
more with the Irish side of the heritage than the
(00:41):
English side. So interesting, this is a good start. Let's
just keep going.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Are we recording?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh yeah, I've been recording for like thirty nine seconds.
Get with it. Dobson, how do you say Dobson, Dobson, Dobson?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I actually hate my name. My name is Leslie and
Victoria Dobson and maybe cook. But like during COVID, I
didn't finish the name processing. So my kids all have
different names too, and so I don't know if it's
Leslie or Leslie.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
My sister is shares a first and middle name with you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Really wild were kindred spirits? No you're not, okay, Liam Billingham,
Liam Billingham.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, Hi, Hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, let's just like be really honest here. We had
a cancelation in the episode, and I have a million
questions from followers, and I find Liam to be who
is my producer, to be very very depressed and dark.
And I'm just kidding, happy and wonderful and really really good.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I'm good at my job, but I'm not going
to pretend that I'm like mister positivity around the States
from New York. Yes, let's say that I'm from Boston,
but I consider myself a New Yorker by attitude and
duration of time living in one place as an adult.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, so in New Yorker?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Can I drink water on the air?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I guess so I can't? Really? Her backdrop is I mean,
very everything looks so great. I'm really glad that I
the show is audio La.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
All right, can we just get on with the program?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, okay, sir Liam. You know that I get asked
really asinine things all of the time.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I mean, some of these questions are no offense to
your listeners. But some of these questions are wildly asinine
no offense. But there are some good ones too. You
got some good ones.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's good to clarify that
I'm not a pathologist, that I don't go out to
crime scenes. I don't pull apart dead bodies or anything
like that that I'm a psychologist to specializes in the
interplay of mental illness, crime and the legal system.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Explain that to me, an idiot.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I got a lot of school, and I went to
school a lot, and I'm hoping my student loans get
paid off. And if they don't, I might I might
get violent.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
But oh, they're not going to get paid off. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
But it's five hundred thousand dollars with interest. Granted. I
bought a lot of sweatshirts on the school campus.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
With my using your student loans. Yeah, okay, well pro tip,
never buy the like stuff on campus. You buy it
at the like crappy bookstore down the street. That's what
you do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, the campus had a hair salon. It was Colorado State.
It was so awesome. Okay. So I got a doctorate,
and so this is my best tip for people. If
you want to do something like what I'm doing, you
get a general doctorate in clinical psychology, and then you
get all of your experiences in forensic work, so with
people with severe mental illness or people in the criminal
(03:49):
justice system. So probation, parole, they're in jail, or they're
in prison, or they're in state hospitals. So that way
you have like you're like this unstoppable psycho logical mind.
You know all the clinical stuff, and then you know
how to deal with all the predators. So here's the key.
When you get burned out and you fucking hate your career,
(04:10):
you can bounce all over the place like I have.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, as a guy who has an undergrad in acting
and a master's degree in filmmaking, I can't relate to
any of that because my two degrees are No, they're not. Actually,
I'm glad I have them, because you'd be amazed at
how many people don't know anything about how to produce
because they just started doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Well, the whole world is turning into podcasting. And what
I wanted with this podcast and what I'm really happy
with meeting you and getting from you and just using you,
you know, and underpaying you and texting you at all
hours of the night, is that you got to stop that.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
By the way, Yeah, you know, you gotten better.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I've gotten better once you've told me. I think that
you were going to bill for it, but I don't
know I.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Don't think I told you that, but oh that's good.
I should do that time. I'm going to tell you that.
But again, a guy with a film degree in a
theater to isn't thinking about money.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So but what sets this show aside is that we
actually give space to guests to get to a meaningful
point of content, and you are editing it so that
we don't have this wasted space. And it's ripe. It's
(05:21):
thick with value, good and bad, and I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Tell you, well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I like the thickness that you offer.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
All right, well, let's just move into the questions then,
But no, it's speaking of thickness, thickness of value. So
I have six questions. They're all good questions, and I'm
going to ask them of you because these came from
our listeners, watchers, viewers, whatever you want to call, people
(05:51):
engaged with the show. And if people like this, maybe
we'll do more of them around specific topics.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yes, yeah, certainly, yeah, if you can vet them, because
some of them are just straight up dick pics and
I don't want to deal with them.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well that's the Internet for you.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
How do you I've never gotten like a vagina pic.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, that doesn't surprise me because men are thrash except
for me. I'm the only good one. Number One, you're married, Leslie.
Me let me get get my theater, get my acting degree. Going, Leslie,
you're married to a psychologist. How do you argue? And
what was the last argument that you had. Let's start
(06:34):
with the last argument that you had. What was that?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, I'll be totally honest. The last argument we had
was I impulsively bought a chair from my office. I
didn't like it. I moved it into my husband's man cave. Uh.
He has a man cave and I have a woman's cove.
And we watched TV in our separate areas of the
(07:00):
home once the kids go to bed. And he told me.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
With children, right, this is the same thing. I'm watching
a movie with headphones on, like these literal headphones, and
my wife is on her phone. It's very romantic.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's so romantic. We carve out like one hour a
week to talk to each other.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, that's that's about That's about normal. I think at
the stage you know.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
It is the young kids are completely overwhelming that I
don't have the capacity to be the best wife but
I told him that I would bookmark being super a
good wafiness later.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Sure, yeah, you gave him an IOU for wife. Enis
got it.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Don't cheat on me and don't leave me. I'll period back.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So the last argument was him saying, I don't like
your chair, and I said, I like the chair and
he said, that's where I stand and look at the
fish aquarium and my baseball card collection. And I said,
you're extremely rigid. It's just a chair. You can stand
a little farther away. And he said, you're invalidating my
(08:02):
experience and my emotions and this is enjoyable for me
after a very stressful day. And I said, well, I'm
prioritizing the visuals of our home and where to put
this chair, and I don't care if I'm invalidating you.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
See, this is like Taiale as old as time, because
like your husband's baseball collection is my physical media meaning
DVDs and Blu rays collection that's very small. It's like
one shelf. But you know, a lot of the time
it's like, do we really need those? And I'm like, yeah,
they're like a security blanket a little bit. But I
will say that in my house, the aesthetic decisions are
(08:39):
made by my wife, and so they're they're kind of
tucked into a corner. You know, I don't. I don't
take up a lot of space with them. It's those
and two guitars, because I am a man in my forties,
so that's yeah, you gotta find that balance.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
But those like really our only fight. I don't know
if it's because we don't have the energy to fight
right now, or it's just where you are work good
pair maybe, But what I have noticed is he's moving
the count. Every time I go into the room. It's
like an inch further away from where I put it.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Originally, So it's like doing it slowly over time so
you don't notice. So you did say in the course
of that that he used the phrase you're invalidating my experience,
which I feel like is like therapists speak. So is
this what it's like when two people with your experience,
like you know, you use like obfuscation and sub refused
to actually say like you're being an asshole, and instead
(09:32):
you just say you invalidate my experience because.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yes, and I said, I said, you know, you're projecting
this perception you're projecting this perception of invalidation when really
I'm just prioritizing the furniture over your well being.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Uh so you're prioritizing his your account over your well Okay,
so that I think might be a problem.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I'm not there, Yeah, I mean reflecting back on it, now,
I could see that, and I might I might shoot
him a text, but we're not moving the cow.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, well take it easy, shoot him a text. Don't
be too intimate with this conversation text. You're right, sorry,
didn't mean to invalidate your experience. You know.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Actually, in fact that one night a week where we
actually speak to each other, I'll sit in the chair
and then we'll bring I'll say, like you will talk
more if I can sit in the chair.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
How many baseball cards does he have?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Hundreds of thousands?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And they just like are they organized in like binders?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Uh no, So he has a wall mounts and he
kind of stacks all of them in wall mounts and
depending on who's flying high in the season or what
sport is up, he'll replace the cards.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Wow, it's like the twenty first century toy train in
the garage kind of see I can yeah, yeah, that's
a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
But I fully recognize that he is from Illinois. He
was a fisherman. He's very calm, he's very grounded, and
I'm I'm nothing like that. So I don't say no,
I don't And we have the same We've had the
same jobs. He's a forensic psychologist. So I think one
of the best stories with him was we we got
(11:15):
asked to go to cal Poly and talk about our jobs,
and we were in these round table groups, so the
students could hop around and go ask a different professional
about their job, and then everybody to fill out feedback afterwards.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Mind date job.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yes, it was great for the students, but the feedback was,
oh my god, doctor Cook has the most amazing job.
I'm so intrigued by what he does. And then the
feedback was doctor Leslie or doctor Jobson has the worst job.
I would never want to do what she does. It
sounds horrifying. And at the time, we were west and
(11:49):
I had the same job at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh so it's kind of all about how you pitch
the job, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's really it's exactly We'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
All right, Well, in order to keep us on track.
Let's go to question number two. But that was very
illuminating about being married to a person who does a
similar job than you, which I did not do. Number
two This, it's hilariously to me and you'll find out why.
Is the second most disturbing question. The most disturbing question
(12:24):
is number three, which I'll ask after this. But number
two worst crime one of your clients has ever committed.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
That just gave me a flashback.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Okay, I didn't mean to invalidate you being present in
the moment. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Sorry. I prefer to like dissociate in all accounts. But anyway,
so I'm here, I'm here now with part of my
brain like twenty percent picturing this. So there's actually two
crimes that really well, there's three, but they really stick
with me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Pick one. Okay, let's keep it tight. I'm your producer.
Let's pick one. Folks, you're hearing behind the scenes of
what this is actually like.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And you you can google this. This was how I
learned of this was not because it was a client,
because it was on TV and the court case was everywhere,
and then I got to be a part of the
court case.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But so you came to it later.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I came to it later because as you know, when
you commit a crime, you go to jail and then
prisoner see hospital.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Well some people do yeah yeah, or.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
You get into politics, but whatever you want to do
with your psychopathy. So this individual his court case. I
became a part of his court case later, so it's
all public record. And so he would he would steal
porta potty trucks and he would have porta potties in them,
(13:50):
and he would go to festivals and he would drive
up and he would say to young girls going into
the festivals that if they wanted to hop in the
truck with him, that but they could get into the
festival for free because he could like backdoor it because
he was going to exchange the porta potties. Okay, so
that's fine at all, theft, whatever, kidnapping, But then he
(14:13):
would strangle them and kill them, put them in the
porta potties, cover them in feces. Once they were dead,
he would rape them and then he would leave them
in the porta potties, put the porta potties into the
festival so that they would then be further covered in
feces and whatever excrement goes in those porta potties. That
is one of the worst crimes I can think of.
(14:35):
Question number three, how did that make you feel? Liam?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I mean, not great, But I guess that's the point
of the show. It's intentionally disturbing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, can you believe that people like that exist?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I suppose I can. I'm a little you know, you
think I'm like negative, but I'm like a pretty try
to find that. It's very hard these days.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I'm glad that this brought positivity out of you.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I don't know. I tried to see the best in people,
but I guess there are just some troubled people. Well, actually,
you know what, let's do. Let's do something. Let's get
question number three because I think we'll come back to it,
because I think question number four relates to what you
just said and all the thoughts around in our brain's
number right now. So question number four, per your porta
(15:25):
potty murderer story, is do you believe in true evil
or do you think everyone is a product of their environment.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh, it's an interesting question, deep question. It's a deep question.
I was raised very very atheist, as I talked about
on one of our other shows with the medium Lisa
and I actually really think Lisa could see dead people,
and so I felt confused. But then I also went
to university and it was Christian and so then I
(15:57):
just kind of got to a place where I was
non judgmental. Still confused, but working with some of the most.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Damous, historically non judgmental people.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, uh, what the Christians are donating to the woman
who used the N word against a child? Right now,
that's trending news.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right, I saw that.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's amorifying.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So wait, I forgot the question, do you believe in
true evil or do you think that everyone is a
product of their environment? So kind of like a nature
nurture kind of deal.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So I've met some of the most dangerous people in
the entire world who never They had no remorse, They
had no care, and they had no desire to make
anything better. They no feelings even being locked up. They
didn't really care. They just kind of were robots around
the world, around the hospitals or the prisons. And so
what I would do is I would do these violence
(16:51):
risk assessments. So I would go I do all this
testing with them. So a lot of it was talking
back and forth with them having to be in the
room with them, get stuff out of them, try to
figure out if they're lying. We would do objective testing,
but I would do chart reviews, and chart reviews included
collateral information, pictures of their crimes, everything about them and
education right behavioral issues. And what I found in a
(17:14):
lot of the most severe cases was that they were
doing horrible things at age four or five. And more
than half the time it was not because of the
parents or the environment. Like there were cases where white
supremacists would torture children at young ages four or five
years old. They'd hide in the trees and they would
(17:36):
leave children alone in the woods at night to start
to build up their strength so that they could be
white supremacists too. I mean, we had all these crazy
cases that turned yeah, it's crazy, right, and it turned
people into very very very mentally ill people. But it
also brought out disinherent desire to harm people, and they
(17:57):
just built on that and they enjoyed harming people time.
So many people that I met, there are bodies buried
that we will never find, and they have done so
much worse than we know, And so I wouldn't necessarily
call it evil but I would say that their brain
or their mind is so broken from birth, like they're amygdala,
(18:20):
their structures. But if there's no coming back from it.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
But if you, like, say the opposite were true, if
someone was born with these like broken you know, structures
in their brain and they were in a nurturing, positive,
loving environment, do you think the opposite could happen? Like,
do you think you could develop that?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
It depends on the severity. And that's where science is
going more and more. Right, we're looking at like the
Amin's clinic, we're looking at people's brains. We're looking at
a veteran who you know, just got back from combat,
and we're looking at the heat in their brain to
see the trauma. But there are brain slides brain analysis
(18:57):
of psychopaths. A lot are dead now and they can
really look at their brains and there's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You mean, like the structures that make the brain work
are not there.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Like there's no emotion. There wouldn't even be a capacity
to build on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Hmm. Do you think people are inherently good or inherently
bad or somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Oh, that's a hard question. I think I think as
a therapist, people are inherently selfish, and we misinterpret a
lot of acts as malicious when they are more just
self protective and caring, and people are ignorant to the
(19:44):
impact it has on others.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So it's kind of like people believe in self preservation
above everything else.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yes, without great insight or an understanding of their impact
on others. But then on the opposite side of that,
we have of individuals who are highly impacted by others
and don't have the boundaries to keep themselves from being
hurt by others. Because if I say something on this podcast,
I'm not talking to all of the people listening. I'm
(20:15):
talking to you and sharing my experience. It doesn't mean
that should have a direct impact on a listener, right,
So you can't. I always tell my clients this, you
can't be a sponge. You got to be more like
a palmis stone, you know, like the water doesn't stay
inside the palmis stone.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Right right, right, right, right, right right right right right. Yeah, yeah,
that makes sense. And I think that some of that
self preservation or interpreting interpreting things as like being about
you is a is a nurture is caused by nurture
and parenting and all these kind of elements. You know,
I come from a historically sensitive people, and I think
(20:50):
some of that is the way that people are parented
in the Boston Irish Catholic community.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So I can critize like the Karen Reid trial going
on nowadays. I mean, they don't they don't seem very sensitive,
but they're also they're also hiding a murder, so that's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's also a very insular community, I can say with
a pretty high degree of expertise in that area. Interesting, Okay,
this is this boghead I did. I'm cutting you off
from another point.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I was gonna say, do you think I would never
perceive Bostonians as sensitive.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Because they shield it with this? Uh? You know, I
don't want to. I can't speak for everyone, but there's
a certain amount of like deep down insecurity because this
it's the city of we think you're better than me,
Like that's kind of part of the mentality there, and
I think that that is rooted in, like in a
kind of sensitivity. Not everyone's like that, of course, but
the joke, the joke they are, the joke has roots
(21:56):
in reality. Let's just say that.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
What's your h what movie do you think is the
most showing or telling or truthful at Boston.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That you're really putting me on the spot here, is
there in it? I think, I hope not. I think probably.
I mean, it's kind of cliche to say, but I
think there's okay. I'll highlight actually who I think is
a great Boston actor and therefore highlight two of his movies.
Who is Matt Damon, And it's Matt Damon in the Departed,
(22:29):
when he plays the Like, notably cocky cockshore double agent,
mobster police officer who also is infertile, and that's a
huge part of his personality is that he can't get
it up. And then two is him and Goodwie Hunting,
when he plays the Like, which has the like the
(22:49):
classic you know, like, uh, it's not yet fault, you
know that scene like that. That is very much a
that's very I think accurate. I showed that to a
friend from Boston who'd never seen it, and he was like,
too real, really, oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean that movie.
He is like, you know, it's a little it's a
little sentimental at times, but that's an accurate that's an
(23:11):
accurate stereotype. My parents are from where that movie takes place.
So and another really good Boston movie is Gone, Baby Gone.
That might get at the alcoholism and anger and rage
at the core of the of elements of that culture
like everywhere, But I can only speak to the place
that I'm from.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And the impact of the weather. I mean, you all
must have seasonal effective disorder, but be in denial about it.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Well, a lot of denial, but that's that's just kind
of how you survive.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
How do you like them apples?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
How do you like the apples? I got a number.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And it's time for a break.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Question number four was three, now is four? Because we
wanted to have a little true evil conversation. So this
is this. This was the most disturbing question until you
told me the porta potty thing.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Oh I have more my that's good.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
My husband. This is the question. My husband likes to
suck my toes? Does that make him a pedophile? Can
I answer? Someone?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Is that a real question?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
No? I mean yes, it is a real question.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Do people it's the people who like that really exist,
not the toe sucker, the person who actually worries about
the toe sucking.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I suppose you got the question, so you tell me
I know.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay. So one, I'm sure there are pedophiles who suck toes,
but no, you don't have to suck toes to be
a pedophile.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Like a Venn diagram where it's they're they're they're only Yeah, yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But it's probably a fetish. I also think that it's
probably a healthy fetish because then the person probably doesn't
have like a fear of germs or of CD and
we can kind of rule our other diagnoses if someone's
down sucking a dirty toe, So I would actually say
good for you, good for your husband. That's a healthy
way to gain intimacy. Yeah, I would not be down
(25:18):
for it because I think that's personally utterly disgusting. If
you're going to suck something, I'll give you something else
to suck.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Well, there we go. There you have it. Okay, We've
got two more questions, and these are around parenting. How
old are you kids?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Four and eight? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I'm in that zone two, seven and two.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, I'm struggling.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I really, who isn't so the first? So, speaking of struggling,
what's a recent parenting fail?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I mean there's just so many reason Like today, an
hour ago, forty five minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
What are we talking about here?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I mean, I try really hard not to threaten my kids,
but I inevitably always fall into the threats. I mean,
one was me saying, I'm gonna throw out your stuffies,
your stuff animals if you don't stop, and my four
year old responded with, that's not fair. You should recycle them.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Well, that's I mean, at least she's thinking about our
mother earth. Yeah, doesn't seem to work very well, the threats,
and it sort of goes against the gentle parenting that
we're all.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Almost believe in. Gentle parenting, but coming from my boom
or father, he tells me, I overly communicate with the children,
which gives them the confidence to are you back with me?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But you listen? Oh sorry, but isn't that ultimately what
you want is your kids too, Because like I think
that like mentality wise, like yeah, kids when we were
younger were like kids, your kids shut up, But now
I think it's like, no, you want to like practice
the skills that you want them to have later in life,
and one of those should be like a healthy distrust
(27:05):
of authority, uh.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
One hundred percent, Like my daughter, someone at school said
to her, I don't my mom doesn't like your mom
because she doesn't she doesn't like her videos or something.
And my daughter turned to her and said, my mom
works every day to help people like you and she
doesn't even know you. My daughter's eight. And I was like,
(27:28):
that is exactly like like rain it in a little bit, honey,
but that like you know your boundaries and I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah. And I think parents parents are parents age did
never like apologize to their kids or I think part
of a role of younger parents is to be like, hey, sorry,
I screwed up just then and you know, was too
harsh with you or whatever the case was, because then
that they get in their mind like, oh, yeah, that's right.
That wasn't cool, Like that wasn't I should be, you know,
(27:57):
Whereas I think an older generation of people, people or
people our age, are a little more like what did
I do wrong? Whereas the kids have the mentality of like,
you know, there are things they do wrong, but a
lot of the time the things that they so called
do wrong or just like stand up for themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I'm all for, you know, empowering the kids to stand
up for themselves and then apologizing later, you know, especially
in situations where they may be unsafe.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I talked to my daughter about how do you know
if somebody's homeless, psychotic and dangerous versus just got off
their job doing construction. And what she likes is she
likes to look at those shoes. She likes to like
if the shoes are really like ripped up, it's a
good sign that they're homeless, and they might be potentially
on drugs or mentally ill and impulsive.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And I tell her both can be true.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, they might just be homeless. I'm really jaded to.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Be aware of the situation and what your boundaries are
and those in fact.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and you know, if she's wrong, then whatever, we'll
figure it out later and apologize. But she's safe, Yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
This is our last question of the Q and A.
We'll do maybe more of these in the future, but
for you for now here it is six. You spend
your whole day consumed by murder and pedophiles and other
disturbing material. How do you switch that off when you
go home at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I mean, I spend a lot of my day doing
my makeup and online shopping, So let's not forget about
that so disassociating, Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I like, I'm on the real real, like pretty much
every day.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
What is that's?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
It's a consignment shopping online?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I got it.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay, Okay, yeah, it's hard. I have to. So the
reason I quit working inside the institutions was because it
became too hard to take my armor off and be
vulnerable with my kids. And as I started to noticed
that the fatigue was coming from switching roles, I quit
(30:04):
and I got into a job that, you know, at
least we're talking about rape and pedophilia and murder, necrophilia,
decapitation and all that stuff. We're talking about it on
the outside, so I'm not like locked inside with.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Them anymore, right, right, right, right, right right.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That was like the first kind of healthy step I think.
But I do have to kind of pull into the
driveway and take a deep breath and say, okay, it's
mom time. And the more I do it, the easier
it gets. But as my daughter gets older, I can
talk to her more about what I actually do, you know,
(30:38):
at her level, and I'm like build like, I don't
have to have so much of an armor. I don't
have to you know fake it as much. She knows
that that work is stressful, and she's starting to kind
of understand what a doctor is and what like a
fake doctor is, you know, like a psychologist. That's what
(30:59):
every want calls.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
That's you're a faked I don't think that's true, is there?
But I think it's more that there are different types
of doctors, right.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
She's starting to understand that, and yeah, like a chiropactor
is a doctor a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Oh right, all right, right, right, right right, yeah, yeah,
if I got a PhD, i'd be a doctor. I'm
not going to get a PhD because, as previously noted,
I have two other useless degrees. But yeah, that yeah,
I definitely.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Be macure Liam.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
If if the world weren't collapsing, maybe you could.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Get an honorary doctorate. Don't all the celebrities get like
the fake ones?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
What would I get an honorary honor who'd give me
an honorary doctorate?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
When we win? What awards do you win for podcasts?
A Grammy?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well? You know they announced today that the Golden Globes
are going to start having Best Podcast in twenty twenty six, So.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Are you serious?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah? I am into a shithole, sir um.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Did that make you stay up and I and cry?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Uh no, no, because like you know, it's it's all
I mean, it's all just it's all the same thing.
It's just a new it's just a new it's just
a new thing, right, So no, not really, But to
come back to it, yeah, I think you got to
kind of like, uh, it's it's hard to be like like,
I'll be like rushing out the door having made dinner
to pick up my kids, and I have to be like, Okay,
(32:23):
now I have to answer the questions of a seven
year old who like doesn't have any awareness of tone
or everyone else's mood because they're all id right are
they all ego? Which one would that be?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Well, the it is the impulsivity. I think the ego
is probably just giving them a little too much. They
don't have that much ego.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Right, right, right, right, So it's like yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
And then the super ego is like you, right, and
so they're going to integrate you as their super ego
over time, as their authority figure because they don't have
anything in them yet.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Well yeah, idea Masters in Fredian psychoanalysis and dreaming, This is.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I think my hot take is that we need to
bring back more Freudian analysis because I feel like people
it's much more interesting than the like the standard I mean,
you know, or like my old therapist was a Jungian
and I always thought that was really interesting too.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
He like he fucking hated Freud.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, there's a great movie about it. A dangerous method,
so yeah, but yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Don't want to like inject cocaine in my eyeball or
use cocaine in any way. But Freud was really you know,
he was really good with it, and he came up
with some really cool important guy.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah. Sure, Well that's all I have. Is there anything
else you'd like to say? Should we wrap it up?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
What is anything else we could say? And in line
with what we've been talking.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
About, that was a long that's really good podcasting. That's
a second pause, and that's nothing. No, I think that's it.
You know, we'll do maybe more of these around, Like
maybe there'll be an episode more about your kid, your parenting,
maybe one about you know whatever. We can just do
(34:10):
different themes, parenting, celebrity. Maybe is one that will do marriage.
Maybe one where people can ask you kind of like
more high, high falutine questions about therapy and psychology and
all these elements. Yeah, and your experience as a forensic pathologist.
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Oh gosh, yeah, I'm such a good pathologist. We should
do a live Q and A where people can ask
me directly. Can is okay if my husband sucks my
toes or my fingers or.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I hope we get that question every time.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I had a client once who really really enjoyed putting
his penis in a wrapping paper. In wrapping paper, yeah,
you know, like the tube of wrapping paper. I don't
know if it's still head paper on it, but it
was like the firm too, and then you love he
would be like, peekabot.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
All right, I think we wrap it up there. Bye.
You're not gonna say anything, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Oh thank you for coming on intentionally disturbing. Now can
you please edit this to make it worthy.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I mean, I'm good at my job, but I'm not
that good. Okay, bye,
How do I say your name? Is it Billyingham?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
The English way, the correct pronunciation, like when I got
on a British Airways flights is Billingham, but like billing Ham,
billing Ham is how Americans say. That's how I say
billing Ham. I don't say Billingham. I'm not English. I
mean I am, but I'm much more Billingham. Donify, much
more with the Irish side of the heritage than the
(00:41):
English side. So interesting, this is a good start. Let's
just keep going.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Are we recording?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh yeah, I've been recording for like thirty nine seconds.
Get with it. Dobson, how do you say Dobson, Dobson, Dobson?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I actually hate my name. My name is Leslie and
Victoria Dobson and maybe cook. But like during COVID, I
didn't finish the name processing. So my kids all have
different names too, and so I don't know if it's
Leslie or Leslie.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
My sister is shares a first and middle name with you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Really wild were kindred spirits? No you're not, okay, Liam Billingham,
Liam Billingham.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, Hi, Hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, let's just like be really honest here. We had
a cancelation in the episode, and I have a million
questions from followers, and I find Liam to be who
is my producer, to be very very depressed and dark.
And I'm just kidding, happy and wonderful and really really good.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I'm good at my job, but I'm not going
to pretend that I'm like mister positivity around the States
from New York. Yes, let's say that I'm from Boston,
but I consider myself a New Yorker by attitude and
duration of time living in one place as an adult.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, so in New Yorker?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Can I drink water on the air?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I guess so I can't? Really? Her backdrop is I mean,
very everything looks so great. I'm really glad that I
the show is audio La.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
All right, can we just get on with the program?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, okay, sir Liam. You know that I get asked
really asinine things all of the time.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I mean, some of these questions are no offense to
your listeners. But some of these questions are wildly asinine
no offense. But there are some good ones too. You
got some good ones.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's good to clarify that
I'm not a pathologist, that I don't go out to
crime scenes. I don't pull apart dead bodies or anything
like that that I'm a psychologist to specializes in the
interplay of mental illness, crime and the legal system.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Explain that to me, an idiot.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I got a lot of school, and I went to
school a lot, and I'm hoping my student loans get
paid off. And if they don't, I might I might
get violent.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
But oh, they're not going to get paid off. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
But it's five hundred thousand dollars with interest. Granted. I
bought a lot of sweatshirts on the school campus.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
With my using your student loans. Yeah, okay, well pro tip,
never buy the like stuff on campus. You buy it
at the like crappy bookstore down the street. That's what
you do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, the campus had a hair salon. It was Colorado State.
It was so awesome. Okay. So I got a doctorate,
and so this is my best tip for people. If
you want to do something like what I'm doing, you
get a general doctorate in clinical psychology, and then you
get all of your experiences in forensic work, so with
people with severe mental illness or people in the criminal
(03:49):
justice system. So probation, parole, they're in jail, or they're
in prison, or they're in state hospitals. So that way
you have like you're like this unstoppable psycho logical mind.
You know all the clinical stuff, and then you know
how to deal with all the predators. So here's the key.
When you get burned out and you fucking hate your career,
(04:10):
you can bounce all over the place like I have.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, as a guy who has an undergrad in acting
and a master's degree in filmmaking, I can't relate to
any of that because my two degrees are No, they're not. Actually,
I'm glad I have them, because you'd be amazed at
how many people don't know anything about how to produce
because they just started doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Well, the whole world is turning into podcasting. And what
I wanted with this podcast and what I'm really happy
with meeting you and getting from you and just using you,
you know, and underpaying you and texting you at all
hours of the night, is that you got to stop that.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
By the way, Yeah, you know, you gotten better.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I've gotten better once you've told me. I think that
you were going to bill for it, but I don't
know I.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Don't think I told you that, but oh that's good.
I should do that time. I'm going to tell you that.
But again, a guy with a film degree in a
theater to isn't thinking about money.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So but what sets this show aside is that we
actually give space to guests to get to a meaningful
point of content, and you are editing it so that
we don't have this wasted space. And it's ripe. It's
(05:21):
thick with value, good and bad, and I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Tell you, well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I like the thickness that you offer.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
All right, well, let's just move into the questions then,
But no, it's speaking of thickness, thickness of value. So
I have six questions. They're all good questions, and I'm
going to ask them of you because these came from
our listeners, watchers, viewers, whatever you want to call, people
(05:51):
engaged with the show. And if people like this, maybe
we'll do more of them around specific topics.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yes, yeah, certainly, yeah, if you can vet them, because
some of them are just straight up dick pics and
I don't want to deal with them.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well that's the Internet for you.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
How do you I've never gotten like a vagina pic.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, that doesn't surprise me because men are thrash except
for me. I'm the only good one. Number One, you're married, Leslie.
Me let me get get my theater, get my acting degree. Going, Leslie,
you're married to a psychologist. How do you argue? And
what was the last argument that you had. Let's start
(06:34):
with the last argument that you had. What was that?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, I'll be totally honest. The last argument we had
was I impulsively bought a chair from my office. I
didn't like it. I moved it into my husband's man cave. Uh.
He has a man cave and I have a woman's cove.
And we watched TV in our separate areas of the
(07:00):
home once the kids go to bed. And he told me.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
With children, right, this is the same thing. I'm watching
a movie with headphones on, like these literal headphones, and
my wife is on her phone. It's very romantic.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's so romantic. We carve out like one hour a
week to talk to each other.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, that's that's about That's about normal. I think at
the stage you know.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
It is the young kids are completely overwhelming that I
don't have the capacity to be the best wife but
I told him that I would bookmark being super a
good wafiness later.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Sure, yeah, you gave him an IOU for wife. Enis
got it.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Don't cheat on me and don't leave me. I'll period back.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So the last argument was him saying, I don't like
your chair, and I said, I like the chair and
he said, that's where I stand and look at the
fish aquarium and my baseball card collection. And I said,
you're extremely rigid. It's just a chair. You can stand
a little farther away. And he said, you're invalidating my
(08:02):
experience and my emotions and this is enjoyable for me
after a very stressful day. And I said, well, I'm
prioritizing the visuals of our home and where to put
this chair, and I don't care if I'm invalidating you.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
See, this is like Taiale as old as time, because
like your husband's baseball collection is my physical media meaning
DVDs and Blu rays collection that's very small. It's like
one shelf. But you know, a lot of the time
it's like, do we really need those? And I'm like, yeah,
they're like a security blanket a little bit. But I
will say that in my house, the aesthetic decisions are
(08:39):
made by my wife, and so they're they're kind of
tucked into a corner. You know, I don't. I don't
take up a lot of space with them. It's those
and two guitars, because I am a man in my forties,
so that's yeah, you gotta find that balance.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
But those like really our only fight. I don't know
if it's because we don't have the energy to fight
right now, or it's just where you are work good
pair maybe, But what I have noticed is he's moving
the count. Every time I go into the room. It's
like an inch further away from where I put it.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Originally, So it's like doing it slowly over time so
you don't notice. So you did say in the course
of that that he used the phrase you're invalidating my experience,
which I feel like is like therapists speak. So is
this what it's like when two people with your experience,
like you know, you use like obfuscation and sub refused
to actually say like you're being an asshole, and instead
(09:32):
you just say you invalidate my experience because.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yes, and I said, I said, you know, you're projecting
this perception you're projecting this perception of invalidation when really
I'm just prioritizing the furniture over your well being.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Uh so you're prioritizing his your account over your well Okay,
so that I think might be a problem.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I'm not there, Yeah, I mean reflecting back on it, now,
I could see that, and I might I might shoot
him a text, but we're not moving the cow.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, well take it easy, shoot him a text. Don't
be too intimate with this conversation text. You're right, sorry,
didn't mean to invalidate your experience. You know.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Actually, in fact that one night a week where we
actually speak to each other, I'll sit in the chair
and then we'll bring I'll say, like you will talk
more if I can sit in the chair.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
How many baseball cards does he have?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Hundreds of thousands?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And they just like are they organized in like binders?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Uh no, So he has a wall mounts and he
kind of stacks all of them in wall mounts and
depending on who's flying high in the season or what
sport is up, he'll replace the cards.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Wow, it's like the twenty first century toy train in
the garage kind of see I can yeah, yeah, that's
a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
But I fully recognize that he is from Illinois. He
was a fisherman. He's very calm, he's very grounded, and
I'm I'm nothing like that. So I don't say no,
I don't And we have the same We've had the
same jobs. He's a forensic psychologist. So I think one
of the best stories with him was we we got
(11:15):
asked to go to cal Poly and talk about our jobs,
and we were in these round table groups, so the
students could hop around and go ask a different professional
about their job, and then everybody to fill out feedback afterwards.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Mind date job.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yes, it was great for the students, but the feedback was,
oh my god, doctor Cook has the most amazing job.
I'm so intrigued by what he does. And then the
feedback was doctor Leslie or doctor Jobson has the worst job.
I would never want to do what she does. It
sounds horrifying. And at the time, we were west and
(11:49):
I had the same job at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh so it's kind of all about how you pitch
the job, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's really it's exactly We'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
All right, Well, in order to keep us on track.
Let's go to question number two. But that was very
illuminating about being married to a person who does a
similar job than you, which I did not do. Number
two This, it's hilariously to me and you'll find out why.
Is the second most disturbing question. The most disturbing question
(12:24):
is number three, which I'll ask after this. But number
two worst crime one of your clients has ever committed.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
That just gave me a flashback.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Okay, I didn't mean to invalidate you being present in
the moment. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Sorry. I prefer to like dissociate in all accounts. But anyway,
so I'm here, I'm here now with part of my
brain like twenty percent picturing this. So there's actually two
crimes that really well, there's three, but they really stick
with me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Pick one. Okay, let's keep it tight. I'm your producer.
Let's pick one. Folks, you're hearing behind the scenes of
what this is actually like.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And you you can google this. This was how I
learned of this was not because it was a client,
because it was on TV and the court case was everywhere,
and then I got to be a part of the
court case.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But so you came to it later.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I came to it later because as you know, when
you commit a crime, you go to jail and then
prisoner see hospital.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Well some people do yeah yeah, or.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
You get into politics, but whatever you want to do
with your psychopathy. So this individual his court case. I
became a part of his court case later, so it's
all public record. And so he would he would steal
porta potty trucks and he would have porta potties in them,
(13:50):
and he would go to festivals and he would drive
up and he would say to young girls going into
the festivals that if they wanted to hop in the
truck with him, that but they could get into the
festival for free because he could like backdoor it because
he was going to exchange the porta potties. Okay, so
that's fine at all, theft, whatever, kidnapping, But then he
(14:13):
would strangle them and kill them, put them in the
porta potties, cover them in feces. Once they were dead,
he would rape them and then he would leave them
in the porta potties, put the porta potties into the
festival so that they would then be further covered in
feces and whatever excrement goes in those porta potties. That
is one of the worst crimes I can think of.
(14:35):
Question number three, how did that make you feel? Liam?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I mean, not great, But I guess that's the point
of the show. It's intentionally disturbing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, can you believe that people like that exist?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I suppose I can. I'm a little you know, you
think I'm like negative, but I'm like a pretty try
to find that. It's very hard these days.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I'm glad that this brought positivity out of you.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I don't know. I tried to see the best in people,
but I guess there are just some troubled people. Well, actually,
you know what, let's do. Let's do something. Let's get
question number three because I think we'll come back to it,
because I think question number four relates to what you
just said and all the thoughts around in our brain's
number right now. So question number four, per your porta
(15:25):
potty murderer story, is do you believe in true evil
or do you think everyone is a product of their environment.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh, it's an interesting question, deep question. It's a deep question.
I was raised very very atheist, as I talked about
on one of our other shows with the medium Lisa
and I actually really think Lisa could see dead people,
and so I felt confused. But then I also went
to university and it was Christian and so then I
(15:57):
just kind of got to a place where I was
non judgmental. Still confused, but working with some of the most.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Damous, historically non judgmental people.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, uh, what the Christians are donating to the woman
who used the N word against a child? Right now,
that's trending news.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right, I saw that.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's amorifying.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So wait, I forgot the question, do you believe in
true evil or do you think that everyone is a
product of their environment? So kind of like a nature
nurture kind of deal.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So I've met some of the most dangerous people in
the entire world who never They had no remorse, They
had no care, and they had no desire to make
anything better. They no feelings even being locked up. They
didn't really care. They just kind of were robots around
the world, around the hospitals or the prisons. And so
what I would do is I would do these violence
(16:51):
risk assessments. So I would go I do all this
testing with them. So a lot of it was talking
back and forth with them having to be in the
room with them, get stuff out of them, try to
figure out if they're lying. We would do objective testing,
but I would do chart reviews, and chart reviews included
collateral information, pictures of their crimes, everything about them and
education right behavioral issues. And what I found in a
(17:14):
lot of the most severe cases was that they were
doing horrible things at age four or five. And more
than half the time it was not because of the
parents or the environment. Like there were cases where white
supremacists would torture children at young ages four or five
years old. They'd hide in the trees and they would
(17:36):
leave children alone in the woods at night to start
to build up their strength so that they could be
white supremacists too. I mean, we had all these crazy
cases that turned yeah, it's crazy, right, and it turned
people into very very very mentally ill people. But it
also brought out disinherent desire to harm people, and they
(17:57):
just built on that and they enjoyed harming people time.
So many people that I met, there are bodies buried
that we will never find, and they have done so
much worse than we know, And so I wouldn't necessarily
call it evil but I would say that their brain
or their mind is so broken from birth, like they're amygdala,
(18:20):
their structures. But if there's no coming back from it.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
But if you, like, say the opposite were true, if
someone was born with these like broken you know, structures
in their brain and they were in a nurturing, positive,
loving environment, do you think the opposite could happen? Like,
do you think you could develop that?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
It depends on the severity. And that's where science is
going more and more. Right, we're looking at like the
Amin's clinic, we're looking at people's brains. We're looking at
a veteran who you know, just got back from combat,
and we're looking at the heat in their brain to
see the trauma. But there are brain slides brain analysis
(18:57):
of psychopaths. A lot are dead now and they can
really look at their brains and there's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You mean, like the structures that make the brain work
are not there.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Like there's no emotion. There wouldn't even be a capacity
to build on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Hmm. Do you think people are inherently good or inherently
bad or somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Oh, that's a hard question. I think I think as
a therapist, people are inherently selfish, and we misinterpret a
lot of acts as malicious when they are more just
self protective and caring, and people are ignorant to the
(19:44):
impact it has on others.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So it's kind of like people believe in self preservation
above everything else.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yes, without great insight or an understanding of their impact
on others. But then on the opposite side of that,
we have of individuals who are highly impacted by others
and don't have the boundaries to keep themselves from being
hurt by others. Because if I say something on this podcast,
I'm not talking to all of the people listening. I'm
(20:15):
talking to you and sharing my experience. It doesn't mean
that should have a direct impact on a listener, right,
So you can't. I always tell my clients this, you
can't be a sponge. You got to be more like
a palmis stone, you know, like the water doesn't stay
inside the palmis stone.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Right right, right, right, right, right right right right right. Yeah, yeah,
that makes sense. And I think that some of that
self preservation or interpreting interpreting things as like being about
you is a is a nurture is caused by nurture
and parenting and all these kind of elements. You know,
I come from a historically sensitive people, and I think
(20:50):
some of that is the way that people are parented
in the Boston Irish Catholic community.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So I can critize like the Karen Reid trial going
on nowadays. I mean, they don't they don't seem very sensitive,
but they're also they're also hiding a murder, so that's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's also a very insular community, I can say with
a pretty high degree of expertise in that area. Interesting, Okay,
this is this boghead I did. I'm cutting you off
from another point.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I was gonna say, do you think I would never
perceive Bostonians as sensitive.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Because they shield it with this? Uh? You know, I
don't want to. I can't speak for everyone, but there's
a certain amount of like deep down insecurity because this
it's the city of we think you're better than me,
Like that's kind of part of the mentality there, and
I think that that is rooted in, like in a
kind of sensitivity. Not everyone's like that, of course, but
the joke, the joke they are, the joke has roots
(21:56):
in reality. Let's just say that.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
What's your h what movie do you think is the
most showing or telling or truthful at Boston.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That you're really putting me on the spot here, is
there in it? I think, I hope not. I think probably.
I mean, it's kind of cliche to say, but I
think there's okay. I'll highlight actually who I think is
a great Boston actor and therefore highlight two of his movies.
Who is Matt Damon, And it's Matt Damon in the Departed,
(22:29):
when he plays the Like, notably cocky cockshore double agent,
mobster police officer who also is infertile, and that's a
huge part of his personality is that he can't get
it up. And then two is him and Goodwie Hunting,
when he plays the Like, which has the like the
(22:49):
classic you know, like, uh, it's not yet fault, you
know that scene like that. That is very much a
that's very I think accurate. I showed that to a
friend from Boston who'd never seen it, and he was like,
too real, really, oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean that movie.
He is like, you know, it's a little it's a
little sentimental at times, but that's an accurate that's an
(23:11):
accurate stereotype. My parents are from where that movie takes place.
So and another really good Boston movie is Gone, Baby Gone.
That might get at the alcoholism and anger and rage
at the core of the of elements of that culture
like everywhere, But I can only speak to the place
that I'm from.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And the impact of the weather. I mean, you all
must have seasonal effective disorder, but be in denial about it.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Well, a lot of denial, but that's that's just kind
of how you survive.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
How do you like them apples?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
How do you like the apples? I got a number.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And it's time for a break.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Question number four was three, now is four? Because we
wanted to have a little true evil conversation. So this
is this. This was the most disturbing question until you
told me the porta potty thing.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Oh I have more my that's good.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
My husband. This is the question. My husband likes to
suck my toes? Does that make him a pedophile? Can
I answer? Someone?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Is that a real question?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
No? I mean yes, it is a real question.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Do people it's the people who like that really exist,
not the toe sucker, the person who actually worries about
the toe sucking.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I suppose you got the question, so you tell me
I know.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay. So one, I'm sure there are pedophiles who suck toes,
but no, you don't have to suck toes to be
a pedophile.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Like a Venn diagram where it's they're they're they're only Yeah, yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But it's probably a fetish. I also think that it's
probably a healthy fetish because then the person probably doesn't
have like a fear of germs or of CD and
we can kind of rule our other diagnoses if someone's
down sucking a dirty toe, So I would actually say
good for you, good for your husband. That's a healthy
way to gain intimacy. Yeah, I would not be down
(25:18):
for it because I think that's personally utterly disgusting. If
you're going to suck something, I'll give you something else
to suck.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Well, there we go. There you have it. Okay, We've
got two more questions, and these are around parenting. How
old are you kids?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Four and eight? Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I'm in that zone two, seven and two.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, I'm struggling.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I really, who isn't so the first? So, speaking of struggling,
what's a recent parenting fail?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I mean there's just so many reason Like today, an
hour ago, forty five minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
What are we talking about here?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I mean, I try really hard not to threaten my kids,
but I inevitably always fall into the threats. I mean,
one was me saying, I'm gonna throw out your stuffies,
your stuff animals if you don't stop, and my four
year old responded with, that's not fair. You should recycle them.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Well, that's I mean, at least she's thinking about our
mother earth. Yeah, doesn't seem to work very well, the threats,
and it sort of goes against the gentle parenting that
we're all.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Almost believe in. Gentle parenting, but coming from my boom
or father, he tells me, I overly communicate with the children,
which gives them the confidence to are you back with me?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But you listen? Oh sorry, but isn't that ultimately what
you want is your kids too, Because like I think
that like mentality wise, like yeah, kids when we were
younger were like kids, your kids shut up, But now
I think it's like, no, you want to like practice
the skills that you want them to have later in life,
and one of those should be like a healthy distrust
(27:05):
of authority, uh.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
One hundred percent, Like my daughter, someone at school said
to her, I don't my mom doesn't like your mom
because she doesn't she doesn't like her videos or something.
And my daughter turned to her and said, my mom
works every day to help people like you and she
doesn't even know you. My daughter's eight. And I was like,
(27:28):
that is exactly like like rain it in a little bit, honey,
but that like you know your boundaries and I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah. And I think parents parents are parents age did
never like apologize to their kids or I think part
of a role of younger parents is to be like, hey, sorry,
I screwed up just then and you know, was too
harsh with you or whatever the case was, because then
that they get in their mind like, oh, yeah, that's right.
That wasn't cool, Like that wasn't I should be, you know,
(27:57):
Whereas I think an older generation of people, people or
people our age, are a little more like what did
I do wrong? Whereas the kids have the mentality of like,
you know, there are things they do wrong, but a
lot of the time the things that they so called
do wrong or just like stand up for themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I'm all for, you know, empowering the kids to stand
up for themselves and then apologizing later, you know, especially
in situations where they may be unsafe.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I talked to my daughter about how do you know
if somebody's homeless, psychotic and dangerous versus just got off
their job doing construction. And what she likes is she
likes to look at those shoes. She likes to like
if the shoes are really like ripped up, it's a
good sign that they're homeless, and they might be potentially
on drugs or mentally ill and impulsive.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And I tell her both can be true.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, they might just be homeless. I'm really jaded to.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Be aware of the situation and what your boundaries are
and those in fact.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, and you know, if she's wrong, then whatever, we'll
figure it out later and apologize. But she's safe, Yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
This is our last question of the Q and A.
We'll do maybe more of these in the future, but
for you for now here it is six. You spend
your whole day consumed by murder and pedophiles and other
disturbing material. How do you switch that off when you
go home at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I mean, I spend a lot of my day doing
my makeup and online shopping, So let's not forget about
that so disassociating, Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I like, I'm on the real real, like pretty much
every day.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
What is that's?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
It's a consignment shopping online?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I got it.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay, Okay, yeah, it's hard. I have to. So the
reason I quit working inside the institutions was because it
became too hard to take my armor off and be
vulnerable with my kids. And as I started to noticed
that the fatigue was coming from switching roles, I quit
(30:04):
and I got into a job that, you know, at
least we're talking about rape and pedophilia and murder, necrophilia,
decapitation and all that stuff. We're talking about it on
the outside, so I'm not like locked inside with.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Them anymore, right, right, right, right, right right.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That was like the first kind of healthy step I think.
But I do have to kind of pull into the
driveway and take a deep breath and say, okay, it's
mom time. And the more I do it, the easier
it gets. But as my daughter gets older, I can
talk to her more about what I actually do, you know,
(30:38):
at her level, and I'm like build like, I don't
have to have so much of an armor. I don't
have to you know fake it as much. She knows
that that work is stressful, and she's starting to kind
of understand what a doctor is and what like a
fake doctor is, you know, like a psychologist. That's what
(30:59):
every want calls.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
That's you're a faked I don't think that's true, is there?
But I think it's more that there are different types
of doctors, right.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
She's starting to understand that, and yeah, like a chiropactor
is a doctor a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Oh right, all right, right, right, right right, yeah, yeah,
if I got a PhD, i'd be a doctor. I'm
not going to get a PhD because, as previously noted,
I have two other useless degrees. But yeah, that yeah,
I definitely.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Be macure Liam.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
If if the world weren't collapsing, maybe you could.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Get an honorary doctorate. Don't all the celebrities get like
the fake ones?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
What would I get an honorary honor who'd give me
an honorary doctorate?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
When we win? What awards do you win for podcasts?
A Grammy?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well? You know they announced today that the Golden Globes
are going to start having Best Podcast in twenty twenty six, So.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Are you serious?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah? I am into a shithole, sir um.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Did that make you stay up and I and cry?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Uh no, no, because like you know, it's it's all
I mean, it's all just it's all the same thing.
It's just a new it's just a new it's just
a new thing, right, So no, not really, But to
come back to it, yeah, I think you got to
kind of like, uh, it's it's hard to be like like,
I'll be like rushing out the door having made dinner
to pick up my kids, and I have to be like, Okay,
(32:23):
now I have to answer the questions of a seven
year old who like doesn't have any awareness of tone
or everyone else's mood because they're all id right are
they all ego? Which one would that be?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Well, the it is the impulsivity. I think the ego
is probably just giving them a little too much. They
don't have that much ego.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Right, right, right, right, So it's like yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
And then the super ego is like you, right, and
so they're going to integrate you as their super ego
over time, as their authority figure because they don't have
anything in them yet.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Well yeah, idea Masters in Fredian psychoanalysis and dreaming, This is.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I think my hot take is that we need to
bring back more Freudian analysis because I feel like people
it's much more interesting than the like the standard I mean,
you know, or like my old therapist was a Jungian
and I always thought that was really interesting too.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
He like he fucking hated Freud.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, there's a great movie about it. A dangerous method,
so yeah, but yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Don't want to like inject cocaine in my eyeball or
use cocaine in any way. But Freud was really you know,
he was really good with it, and he came up
with some really cool important guy.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah. Sure, Well that's all I have. Is there anything
else you'd like to say? Should we wrap it up?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
What is anything else we could say? And in line
with what we've been talking.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
About, that was a long that's really good podcasting. That's
a second pause, and that's nothing. No, I think that's it.
You know, we'll do maybe more of these around, Like
maybe there'll be an episode more about your kid, your parenting,
maybe one about you know whatever. We can just do
(34:10):
different themes, parenting, celebrity. Maybe is one that will do marriage.
Maybe one where people can ask you kind of like
more high, high falutine questions about therapy and psychology and
all these elements. Yeah, and your experience as a forensic pathologist.
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Oh gosh, yeah, I'm such a good pathologist. We should
do a live Q and A where people can ask
me directly. Can is okay if my husband sucks my
toes or my fingers or.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I hope we get that question every time.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I had a client once who really really enjoyed putting
his penis in a wrapping paper. In wrapping paper, yeah,
you know, like the tube of wrapping paper. I don't
know if it's still head paper on it, but it
was like the firm too, and then you love he
would be like, peekabot.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
All right, I think we wrap it up there. Bye.
You're not gonna say anything, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Oh thank you for coming on intentionally disturbing. Now can
you please edit this to make it worthy.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I mean, I'm good at my job, but I'm not
that good. Okay, bye,
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